Mu gihe cyo gushyira ahagaragara Hooza Podcast *, Itangazamakuru rya Hooza riratangaza ko ryatangajwe, guhera kuri uyu wa gatanu, tariki ya 5 Gashyantare, ry’amajwi y’igitabo “Bisesero, Ghetto y'i Rwanda ya Warsaw” cyanditswe n'umwanditsi w’Ubufaransa Serge Farnel: ibice by’ iminota 15, byerekanwa buri minsi 2 kuri platifomu, bizemerera abumva bavuga igifaransa gukomeza, ibyumweru byinshi, bumve iyi nkuru kandi ku buntu kuri terefone zabo. Ubuhamya bwatanzwe n'abacitse ku icumu ndetse n'abahoze ari abajenosideri, buvuga cyane cyane uruhare rw'abazungu mu bwicanyi bukomeye bwabaye ku ya 13 Gicurasi 1994 i Bisesero [mu burengerazuba bw'u Rwanda], na bwo buzashyirwa ku rubuga rwa interineti hagamijwe kwemerera kwibiza abumva, bibafasha gushiramo neza hejuru iki gice cyunvikana cyane mumateka yiki gihe. Igihe cyavuganye na Serge Farnel kubyerekeye gutangiza.
Igihe: Kuki utanga amajwi yigitabo cyawe?
Serge Farnel: Nuburyo bwo guha abantu benshi bashoboka kugera kuri iki gice cyingenzi cyamateka yiki gihe cya Afrika aricyo cyarwanyaga byimazeyo abasivili b'abatutsi kuri jenoside iheruka yo mu kinyejana cya 20. Iki gikorwa kidasanzwe cyubutwari cyabereye mumisozi miremire ya Bisesero, muburengerazuba bwu Rwanda. Iyi nkuru itureba twese, twaba Abanyarwanda cyangwa tutari bo, twaba muri Afurika cyangwa tutabaho, ni amateka yacu. Ariko, ntabwo abantu bose basoma cyangwa ntibashobora guhugukira gusoma inkuru nkiyi. Igihe rero Victor Nkindi, washinze Hooza Media, yansabye ko nabyandika muri sitidiyo ye, natekereje ko igitekerezo ari cyiza.
Ni ryari wakoze aya majwi?
Muri 2014, ubwo natangaga iki gitabo mu Rwanda mugihe cyo kwibuka ku nshuro ya 20 jenoside. Abantu bose bateraniye mu murwa mukuru. Nanjye ubwanjye nagiye i Bisesero kubera ko nashakaga kubana na Basesero [abatuye Bisesero] uwo munsi.
Twibutse ko abarokotse ubwicanyi bukomeye bwo ku ya 13 Gicurasi i Bisesero baje muri uyu mwaka ku rwibutso rwa Kigali kugira ngo bahamye ko abazungu bagize uruhare muri ubwo bwicanyi.
Kamera za tereviziyo yu Rwanda nazo zari zihari kandi abareba u Rwanda barashobora kubabona bakumva bavuga kuri aba bazungu, tariki 13 Gicurasi aha hantu h'ikigereranyo. Naho abateranye bahari, bashoboye kubaza ibibazo bashaka kubaza. Wari umwanya wingenzi kubarokotse.
Umwihariko w'iyi nkuru nuko ishingiye ku buhamya bwinshi bwinshi, nibyo?
Benshi cyane, yego. Mu byukuri byari ikibazo cyo kubaka konti yuzuye ishoboka mumateka ya jenoside yabereye i Bisesero. Ubu buhamya, sindi jyenyine nabukusanyije. Nshingiye rero ku masoko menshi, menshi: Uburenganzira bwa Afurika, Komisiyo ya Mucyo, raporo z’abanyamakuru, abandi bashakashatsi ...
Umwihariko w'ubuhamya mwebwe ubwanyu mwakusanyije, ni uko bifitanye isano itaziguye n'abazungu mu bwicanyi bwo ku ya 13 Gicurasi bwahitanye abasivili bagera ku 50.000 i Bisesero.
Rwose. Ariko sindi jyenyine nakusanyije bimwe. Hariho rero abegeranijwe niperereza rya kabiri, byongeye, nkuko abisobanura birambuye mu kiganiro, yaguye kubwamahirwe kubwuruhare, kandi ibi abinyujije kumuyoboro utandukanye cyane nuwanjye. Namenye ko amaherezo yashoboye gusubira mu Rwanda vuba aha. Hanyuma iperereza rya gatatu naryo ryemeje ko abazungu bahari ku ya 13 Gicurasi.
Icyakora, namenyeshejwe ko bimaze imyaka myinshi bibujijwe kubaza abarokotse Bisesero usibye urutonde ruto rw'abatangabuhamya batabonye aba bazungu bo ku ya 13 Gicurasi. Ibi ntibyabuze gutungurwa, hashize imyaka ibiri, umunyamakuru w’umufaransa ukomoka muri RFI aburira abumva kuri radiyo y’Ubufaransa. Ariko sinshidikanya ko ibintu bizahinduka, kandi ibi mumahoro. U Rwanda rwiziritse ku kuri kose kugira ngo rutanyuze, ndetse igice, n'amateka yarwo.
Cyane cyane ko kuba aba bazungu bahari ku ya 13 Gicurasi bitwaje intwaro zikomeye ni ikimenyetso cy’ubutwari budasanzwe bw’aba baturage b’abatutsi badasanzwe, kubera ko bwari bwo buryo bwonyine bwo gutsinda ibitero byabo. Na none, gushyira amateka yabo rwose nicyubahiro tutagomba kubambura. Ni inshingano twese tubakesha.
Kugira ngo ngaruke ku batangabuhamya nabajije ubwanjye, nshizemo n'abo nakusanyije kandi batavuga Abazungu bo ku ya 13 Gicurasi, haba kubera ko ubuhamya bwabo bwerekeye ahandi hantu, cyangwa kubera ko uwo munsi batigeze babona ubwabo i Bisesero. .
Noneho inkuru ntabwo ireba Bisesero gusa?
Mubyukuri, yego, ariko ntidushobora kumva ibibera hariya tutumva icyateye abatutsi benshi kwimuka buhoro buhoro aha hantu. Ariko kubwibyo, tugomba kandi kuvuga ibibera mumujyi wa Kibuye uherereye munsi yimisozi miremire ya Bisesero, umujyi abatutsi bamwe bazashobora guhunga kugirango birinde kwicirwa kuri stade cyangwa mu matorero.
Niba kandi tuvuga, nk'urugero, kuri stade ya Kibuye, tugomba kumva uburyo abajenosideri bashoboye kubahuriza aho. Ibi bituzanira indi komine, iya Mabanza, aho dukurikira umuryango uhatirwa gukora ibirometero makumyabiri kugirango tugere kuri stade. Agiye kuyinjiramo iyo hari (cyangwa izaba ihari, sinshobora kwibuka uwagerayo mbere) undi muryango uwumva akurikira icyarimwe, ariko wabaga ahateganye na stade.
Wavugaga kandi, kubijyanye n'ubuhamya bwo ku ya 13 Gicurasi, ko ushizemo abatarabona abazungu?
Nibyo, kandi ibi muburyo bumwe nkibyo nagusobanuriye. Ugomba kumenya ko nubwo umubare munini w’abarokotse bahamya ko abazungu bahari ku ya 13 Gicurasi, uyu mubare birashoboka ko ari muto cyane nkijanisha ryabacitse ku icumu rya Bisesero.
Kandi kubw’impamvu nziza: nubwo kuboneka kwabo kwari gufata icyemezo, aba bazungu bashoboraga kuba bari hagati ya makumyabiri na mirongo ine, hagati yimbaga y’ibihumbi n’ibihumbi bya jenoside yakorewe Abanyarwanda, abasirikari, imitwe yitwara gisirikare cyangwa abahinzi b’Abahutu. Abatutsi birukaga kugira ngo bahunge umuriro w’intwaro nini n’imbunda, kugira ngo bahunge grenade n’imipanga. Ntabwo bose rero bashoboye kubabona.
N’umwanya wo kuvuga ko niba udashaka guhura n’abashobora gutanga ubuhamya kubihari byabo, uzahura nubu bwoko bwubuhamya ufite amahirwe make, cyane cyane nkuwarokotse wababonye ntabwo byanze bikunze aguha wenyine. amakuru atazi ni ngombwa kuri wewe. Ariko kubw’amahirwe, harahagije muribo bashobora guhamya ko bahari kandi bamaze kubikora.
Ariko, kuva nabyiga, natangaje kurubuga rwiperereza [www.bisesero.net] ibimenyetso byo guhagarika ibi. Tuzareba ko iyi izaba imwe mu nzira ibintu bigomba kunyuramo mu rugendo rwabo rugana ku mateka kandi ko wa mugani wo mu Rwanda uvuga mu buryo bwarwo: "Ukuri kunyura mu bigeragezo by’umuriro utarinze. "
Ku rundi ruhande, biremewe kwibaza uburyo kuba abazungu mu bwicanyi bwo ku ya 13 Gicurasi bitazandikwa mu mateka kugeza igihe kirekire cyane nyuma y'ibyabaye, na cyane cyane nyuma ya komisiyo ya Mucyo [komisiyo y'u Rwanda ishinzwe gukusanya ibimenyetso by'Ubufaransa uruhare muri jenoside, inyandiko y'umwanditsi]
Nabisobanuye ku rubuga rwubushakashatsi kimwe no mu gitabo cyanjye cya mbere. Nk’umunyamakuru, naje guherekeza iyi komisiyo mu Kuboza 2006 i Bisesero. Iperereza rye ryibanze ku minsi itatu kuva ku ya 27 kugeza ku ya 30 Kamena 1994 ya Operation Turquoise [ubutumwa bw’Abafaransa bwatangiye ku ya 22 Kamena 1994 mu Rwanda, inyandiko y’umwanditsi], ibyo bikaba byumvikana kuva ubutumwa bwe bwari ugukusanya ibimenyetso by’uko Ubufaransa bwagize uruhare itsembabwoko.
Yagombaga rero kwibanda ku matariki y’ubutumwa bw’Ubufaransa. Yakoze neza rero ibyo yashinzwe gukora. Kandi yabikoze muburyo bushimishije. Kuri iyi ngingo, imirimo iyi komisiyo yakoze ni amateka adasanzwe. Iperereza ryanjye ryatangiye nyuma y'umwaka umwe raporo ye isohotse, mpita menyesha Bwana Mucyo ibyo nari maze kumenya.
Ni ryari wamumenyesheje ryari?
Gusa nyuma yo kwandika ubuhamya bwa mbere bwerekana ko hari abazungu ku ya 12 na 13 Gicurasi i Bisesero. Tugarutse i Kigali, ikintu cya mbere nakoze ni ukubwira umwe mu bakomiseri ba komisiyo ya Mucyo kuri telefoni, nyuma mpamagara perezida wacyo, mu yandi magambo Jean de Dieu Mucyo ubwe, icyo gihe wari umunyamabanga nshingwabikorwa wa CNLG [National Komisiyo ishinzwe kurwanya Jenoside]. Uwa nyuma yahise ashaka guhura nanjye. Bwana Mucyo noneho twaganiriye kuburebure kugirango tugerageze kumva uwashobora kuba aba bazungu.
Amaze gusesengura ibyihutirwa nasize kopi hagamijwe gukorera mu mucyo, yansabye kugaruka kugira ngo nkomeze iperereza ryanjye, kugeza aho nitabira, hamwe na Tharcisse Karugarama, wari Minisitiri w’ubutabera w’u Rwanda, icyo gihe mu nkunga ye. Igihe yambazaga, sinigeze numva isoni zamuteye. Mu myaka ibiri ishize, yari yarakoze iperereza hamwe nitsinda rye kuruhande yari yarahawe. Njyewe, nari nzanye gusa ikindi kintu kijyanye nigihe kitari mubutumwa bwubufaransa. Mu byukuri, ubwicanyi bukomeye bwa Bisesero bwabaye ku ya 13 Gicurasi, mu yandi magambo nyuma y’uko igikorwa cy’Abafaransa Amaryllis kirangiye cyo kwimura Abanyaburengerazuba (15 Mata) na mbere y’igitero cy’igikorwa cy’Abafaransa Turquoise (22 Kamena), ubutumwa bwatanzwe nk’ubutabazi.
Ni iki utegereje muri iki gikorwa?
Reka afashe kumenyekanisha iki gice cyamateka mugihe cyanjye, mugihe yizeye ko u Rwanda ruzakora ibikenewe, bitarenze, ntasige genocideri yera yo ku ya 13 Gicurasi nta kudahana. Mu bwisanzure, kandi niba ari Abafaransa cyangwa ataribyo, niba icyo gihe bari abasirikare bakora mubisirikare cyangwa abacanshuro. Ibyo ari byo byose! Ariko reka kureka guta igihe. Bagomba kubibazwa.
Imwe mu myitwarire ikomeye ni iy'abagabo bahembwa Paul Barril bishoboka ko bari bagize iri tsinda rya jenoside. Umubare wibintu bifatika byerekana ibi. Kandi aba bagabo baramenyekana. Turacyavuga abasivili ibihumbi mirongo itanu bishwe mumunsi umwe! Ntitukibagirwe. Inshingano zacu zo kudakora ni nini imbere yamateka.